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Emiko
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xx Improving RP Quality...
« Thread started on: Feb 15th, 2014, 9:39pm »

Hi guys,

I've been doing a lot of thinking the last week with everything that's been going on. I realize that the number one problem that we are facing here on the forums is the low writing quality of some of our role players... It has occurred to me that this single issue has driven away more people than I care to count and I realize now that it's an issue that has to be addressed.

Because this issue is so pressing, I am opening this thread to the public seeking ideas from you as to how to bring up the quality of our writing. If you guys have any ideas as to how we could improve the quality of our writing, please post and discuss those ideas here. When you post your idea though, make sure there is some substance behind it. Don't just post something random without giving any details as to how your plan could work.

An example idea that I am personally considering right now:

I've heard several members over the course of time request that we have stricter rules on the board with a mandate for members to get better, or not allow them to stay here to role play. As you know, I am very much against such a mandate... The fact is, a mandate isn't going to solve our problems... Besides the fact that such a system would be nearly impossible to maintain with just the few moderators available, this system also encourages elitism by eliminating those who aren't good only to keep those that are... While we want good role players here, I for one don't think hashing out the good from the bad is the way to settle this...

I am a firm believer that every single individual here has the ability to be a good writer. To some, these abilities come natural while others have to strive to obtain it. The fact is, everyone has the potential in my eyes. Where I think we need to go to improve the role playing quality is to help those who aren't up to par with others by guiding and teaching them how to harness their own potential.

What I am personally proposing to all of you is that we open up a little section on the board dedicated strictly to teaching. It would be something of a role play academy where members desiring to improve can come and request to be instructed from a staff approved mentor. This mentor will take the member seeking to improve under their wing and help them to harness the potential that is inside of them. Theoretically, through this system we could improve the quality of the writing here without having to issue strict mandates that sap away the entertainment factor of role playing here.

I don't yet know how mentors would be established and how the academy system would work, but this is the idea that I've come up with and one I'm strongly considering implementing.

What do you guys think? Do you like the idea of having an academy or mentor/student system? Do you have something else to add to it? Do you have another idea you'd like to add? Post what you have here and lets get this discussion going.

Now, while I made a rant about being against a mandate, I am in no way shutting out that idea or anything related to it. I will listen to everything you guys have to say, but the only way I will take it to heart is if you offer substance behind your argument. I am listening with an open mind and willing to try different things and see how they work. Post what you have, and I'll listen. Just keep it nice and provide good substance to your arguents, ok?
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #1 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 08:16am »

My personal opinion is that the mentor system is the best way. It's how I've gotten better. Blockingmars sort of unofficially took me under his wing and showed me the ropes and giving me feedback on how to work better with my rp partners. So yeah I'm totally for the mentor system as that's what worked for me. Not sure how the new members would request mentors though as everyone is different and has different boundaries. Maybe have the new members read some of the experienced members rps and then make their decision off that? Is that a good idea Emiko?
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #2 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 10:12am »

What if we have a few people go around and spell-check other people's RPs upon request of the writers? I mean, there are some awesome writers on here, but their spelling and/or grammar can be atrocious. It can make the idea become confusing. An approved "checker" and a writer would work together to make their grammar and spelling better.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #3 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 10:36am »

I just figured I'd write what was on my mind as I thought of it. This is one of the first posts that I literally just started typing and did not stop until I exhausted my brain. Here goes!

I personally like the mentor/mentee system. The only problem with this that I could forsee is forced pairing. Meaning, someone could be paired up with a mentor simply because someone else said they should. This is killing my Grad Project at school right now (something I will be writing throughout the day today) because the simple fact remains that while some people can write very well, (like me, because apparently people tell me I'm a good writer) they may not necessarily be comfortable with guiding someone along.

Lets get more personal. Hypnosisbliss mentioned the time I brought him up, took him under my wing, etc. The truth is... I was very terrified of doing so. My personal belief with people (and this ties into your's Emiko) is that everyone has some brilliance in them. Everyone has something they can offer, big or small... all we have to do is bring that out. I was just afraid of crushing his in the particular way I was teaching him... I've noticed that happen on several occasions.

However, I must give you credit. All critiques aside, this is a good idea... in theory. I'll of course help implement it (as I am expected to) and I'll help make it a reality, if you so wish.

I would offer something else, though... more like bring it up again. RP critiques. Are they staying or going with this new system on the forefront of your mind?

Unfortunately... there are a few members on this site who RP for other reasons then the good writers on here... these people RP for more of a physical enjoyment then to have fun and/or be creative. And while I'm not bashing anyone for that... but that reasoning has its place. And as Emiko's post proves... that place is not here.

I hate to bring it up again, but I came across it a few days ago... thats what Kaa X was. Kaa X, as it is remembered, is where you went solely to find physical pleasure in coiling and hypnosis. Thats not what this website is, according to who is the leader now. There are many RP sites out there... varying in rules, creativity level, and audience... and a lot of those get filled up because they allow things that we do not.

Which brings me to my main point. I do not believe this website has become a bit run down because of anything we have personally done... rather, its people wanting to use RPing as a way to... physically enjoy themselves, instead of find their inner creativity and spirit. This mentor system may help with that... but, as long as humans stay the way they are, there will always be manifestations of elite groups on each site.

It is up to these elite groups to use their influence for good, rather then bad. Recently, it has been very bad, and that snowballed into people leaving.

As far as a mandate... I supported that until it got turned on its head. I wouldn't say so much a mandate as... maybe change something in the forums?

Oh, lightbulb moment. The ranks people get... maybe they have to make a certain number of posts, or be in a certain number of RPs, before they can move on to the higher level, more creativity-demanding threads? Random idea, no substance, but I thought i'd throw it out there.

And now... the main problem we face. The main problem we face is most people out there looking to RP are doing it simply as a distraction, as an escape. Maybe thats why I started, I can never know for sure. But these people want nothing more then an open forum where anything goes... hence again, Kaa X. The other hypnosis forum sites have less rules then we do, hence, people go to those instead.

So again, maybe we are not the problem... maybe people not wanting to get better, or seeking RPing for the wrong reason(s), is the problem.

Thanks for your time. cheesy

~BlockingMars
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #4 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 1:09pm »

Emiko,

I just want to start this off by saying that you and I both know, deep down, that this idea will never achieve what it was intended to do.

Your idea has one critical and fatal flaw; it requires that those participating care enough to seek out help. Are there some people that care enough to seek help? Yes. However, as someone else already pointed out the people who care enough already have the means to seek out help. Most of the other people who are making poor quality posts just don't care, and under your system this behavior is completely sanctioned. At that point, have we really made any dent at all in how widespread poor quality RPing is here? I would argue that it would have little to no impact.

You know full well what my own ideas have been in regards to this matter, but seeing as my last iteration of them was posted in the admin/mod section I no longer have access to it. (I never actually made any backup of that post and the system I proposed therein) Is this solution harsh? Absolutely, and I won't even attempt to argue otherwise. My point here is that any solution that lacks an aspect of harshness will be ineffective at solving the problem. Until we have a system where it is punishable, poor RPing will always be sanctioned here. As long as it is sanctioned here, we will still be in the exact same scenario that we are now. The poor RPers will become more pervasive and the good ones are left to either put up with them, leave, or some combination of the two.

Anything that isn't a mandate is destined to fail. I don't like being harsh or giving out warnings/bans, but what motivation will people have for getting better if there are no consequences? I proposed the system that I did after a lot of time thinking about it. Even still I have yet to see any system that would solve the issue more adequately. I did everything that I could think of to discourage elitism while still giving new RPers a place that they could grow and learn, in addition to doing something similar to what you are suggesting for a place to go and seek help.

You seem to have some sort of fundamental issue with the idea of a mandate. Are your issues with a mandate simply that you have something against the idea of the widespread warnings/bans that would inevitably ensue? If that is the source of your trepidation, then I urge you to ask yourself a simple question: If there are people here that are posting poorly and not making any attempts to get better, then do we really want those people continuing to post here? There has to be a point where we can put our feet down and say that we don't want somebody around here. There's simply a point where a person becomes virulent and/or detrimental to the forum as a whole. If you're taking the time to try and remedy this then surely you agree at how this is the case.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #5 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 2:58pm »

I agree with a mentor system. I try to post with effort but I still feel very flawed. It would benefit newer people like me gain experience and improve with grammar and writing. However I think a mandate would divide some people. I think that there should be a section for people who want to improve.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #6 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 4:08pm »

I will try to address everyone's concerns and points to the best of my ability.

HypnoBliss:

I have thought about using the role plays of more experienced role players as a teaching tool to those that participate in the program. Nothing is finalized and the details are still being written out, but using past role plays as a teaching tool would be helpful I think.

Prismatic:

Spelling and grammatical checkers could be a good contribution. While I do think it is a good idea, I don't know how much people would request/use it. We do have the role play critiques which somewhat encompasses this idea partially. Because of that, I honestly don't know how much people would use it if implemented.

BlockingMars:

As of this moment in time, I don't know what is going to happen to the RP critique section. My plan as of now would not affect the critiques in the slightest. The critique thread is to help you identify what you need to work on while my academy program would focus on teaching you HOW to improve where you fall short. If anything, the two would work together more than against each other. In theory anyway...

I have been thinking about this idea a little bit more, and your concern about forced pairings is a good thing to bring to light. I would have this function much like how the RP critique functions now. I would allow the participant to request an instructor if they wanted one, and only assign one to them if they flat out didn't care who tutored them. Nothing is forced here. My program isn't to force people to get better, it's to guide them.

You've brought up a lot of valid points regarding why people role play here and the extreme differences between KainaKaa and Kaa X. I'm not going to bash Kaa X. I personally know several of the members there and they have good and bad people just as we do here. The only difference between the two sites is that one prefers to be more open while we here are a bit more conservative. I personally hold no ill will towards Kaa X or anyone that goes there. We are all a part of the same community with just different views.

Backing up slightly, the reason that many do go there is because of the openness that it offers as well as the ability to fulfill a fetish. I also know that is why a majority of the members come here and role play.

I will admit right now that I am guilty of role playing for this reason. I've partaken in many role plays just to fulfill desires to see certain things unfold. As I matured though, I learned how to harness what was inside of me and how to turn my desires into something more creative. I took the initiative to practice on how I did things and used my desires to create some creative, unique avenues that you now see in my role plays.

I am not saying that I am a good writer, or that I've done everything perfectly. I still have some things that I need to work out. Making my own OCs instead of constantly using myself is one of those things, but I am working on it. My abilities and I in general am a work in progress. I took the initiative to change and have became who I am today as a result of it. That's what I want everyone here to have the opportunity to do. To take what is inside of them and harness their potential and use it in a unique way.

I firmly believe that people can change if they want to. I believe that everyone has the potential to shape their own destiny. If they fail to take charge however, something and someone else is going to do it for them... I believe that the reason people role play to fulfill a fetish is simply because that is how the environment is set up. If we want to change that, bringing awareness and an avenue to do so such as this mentor program could help. It's not a perfect solution, but it's something to start changing the tides.

Crimson:

I just want to first off say that it's nice to hear from you again, even if it is only for a short time... The admin section is only accessible to admin and moderators. When you changed your member status, that was what locked you out. If you want me to send a copy of your idea back to you, let me know and I'll PM/e-mail it to you.

Addressing your points... You are right, Crimson. The fatal flaw of my idea is that it will only work providing people take the initiative. Likewise, the fatal flaw of issuing mandates it that it will only work as long as people don't care to work with the mandates. What we need is a system that doesn't force, but gently nudges members to take the initiative to change and then help them to develop that change.

The issue I have against mandates is that it requires people to comply with something. We are a small community as it is and the number one reason why people come here is to have fun. I want to improve the quality of writing as much as everything else, but not at the expense of taking away the entertainment aspect. As I've said repeatedly, I am against mandates because once you start constricting the entertainment value of role playing, people are going to just start getting up and leaving for something less constrictive. Even if they don't the alternative is that we will have to issue warnings and bans to remove those that aren't up to par with the set standards. Once we accomplish our goal of ridding ourselves of those members who don't want to, or can't comply, what will we be left with...? Will we honestly have enough members to even survive? That is my concern with issuing mandates...

I in no way will say that my plan is perfect. While I am against mandates in general, I am not going to completely shut them out. I do believe that there needs to be something to 'force' the initiative to change. I just think it would be better to be a nudge instead of a full out force. I am only against mandates because I don't want to lose who we have as much as I want to improve what we have here. I would be willing to incorporate mandates providing a centrist approach is taken in doing so. An approach I'm doing my best to take now with this debate/discussion...

In general:

As I know you guys might go silent after this insanely long post... While I may have sounded harsh in this post, that was not my intention at all. I am only bringing to light my concerns towards what has been posted. I am not dismissing any of your ideas or saying they won't work. I'm just pointing out the various things to be considered with my rebuttal. Likewise, I appreciate the rebuttal you guys have towards my idea. It helps me to iron out different aspects and to consider the best approach. I encourage you guys to continue posting up ideas, or even offer rebuttal to what I've posted if you like. That is what this topic is for.
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III. I like soft vore.
IV. I do enjoy a little bit of foot-play, but not tickling.
V. I like participating in stories with a good amount of effort and details put into each post. <3
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #7 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 9:49pm »

Just read it, but way too tired to reply now. I'll be sure to do so tomorrow.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #8 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 9:54pm »

Question. If we do have the mentor system how would the new rpers request mentors?
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #9 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 10:07pm »

There could be s thread for it.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #10 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 10:22pm »

I can't say I'd personally be in favor of a mentor system... members don't really have an incentive to participate in said system, especially if they'll be under constant scrutiny for little to no immediate payoff.

I feel like the way to go is positive reinforcement, rewarding members with things as they constantly improve. As to what the rewards would be, I'm not sure.

I also feel like if we split the rps into "serious" and "casual" sections, where the casual section is just that, given little to no thought and having basic guidelines to adhere to. The serious section (hopefully that wouldn't be the official name) would have things like proper grammar requirements, minimum character requirements per post, and other generally stricter guidelines. Perhaps we could limit rp critiques to rps only in this section, as well?

Just some ideas. I don't want to get too political with this, so... yeah.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #11 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 10:38pm »

how would we be under constant scrutiny? I was with Blockingmars and I didn't feel like that. Just saying.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #12 on: Feb 16th, 2014, 11:13pm »

Perhaps scrutiny was the wrong word, but I just overall don't think the system would be used very much. I can't say I'd personally be very willing to mentor anybody. I'm by no means a teacher, and I'm always onto myself about my own writing.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #13 on: Feb 17th, 2014, 12:17am »

Your probably right about the not being used much but it'll be there for those who do want a mentor. That's the thing. The new rpers will have the opportunity to have a mentor if they want one. If they don't than that's also fine. But every now and again someone like me comes along and like to have someone to show them the ropes. So it'll be there if needed.
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xx Re: Improving RP Quality...
« Reply #14 on: Feb 17th, 2014, 1:41pm »

I feel like maybe there could be a minimum word count to prevent half-assed posts, but sometimes a short post is unavoidable.

As for the optional mentoring system, there definitely would be limited appeal unless there was an incentive. I think maybe the rules on grammar and stuff should be tighter and then if someone violates that, their posts are examined and a mentor is assigned and/or they are given friendly feedback for improvement. If they still don't give a crap, well, I dunno.
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